Why WoW is boring.

[Benito]

Up to lvl 70 all you do is do the same quests as everyone else. Once you get to lvl 60, which will not take that long at all. All there is left is raiding with large 40-20 man groups where it literally ends up feeling like a long tiring job of following the orders of some really pushy guy ordering around 30 kids and maybe two-four normal mature adults. I can tell you first hand it gets incredibly repetative. And thats all end game really is. Unless you do PVP, in which case its the same thing only less organized and endless.... of course, theres a lot WoW does, but i promise you it will feel like another job before long. And for those of you who like to RP. Theres almost no one who does RP anymore. Not even in an RP realm, and in the pvp realm, your likely to get ganked so many times you'll end up switching to another server or quitting all together.

<edit 2-23>
Final Fantasy XI has a progressive story line in which has more definition and involvement of the player then WoW. Not only does it consist of a more involving plot line but it is also set up where players can roleplay without losing too much from say exp parties and the such. WoW attempts at roleplay endgame is ruined by PvP and raid kiddies. Many guilds have straight up just given up hope on running a successful RP guild.

A raid consists of five parts; organization and instruction, fighting through elite raid mobs, Boss Events, Rezzing and reconstruction, and treasure distribution.

Organization and instruction:
This is the part where the entire 40-man party spends massive amounts of time instructing new members and old alike how to kill through the normal raid mobs and unique instructions of each boss. This usually makes up about 20-30% of the total raid time for an experienced party. This time is also based on the fact that when a member of the party is replaced the they will also have to be instructed on what is needed from them. Organization is also based on the fact that there is a large amount of time needed to "buff" then entire raid as well. People need special equipment and items for raids; often the class leaders will distribute these items throughout the raid.

Fighting through elite raid mobs:
This is a tiresome, rewarding, and painful process of eliminating the "trash" mobs to get to the next boss within a raid dungeon. The monsters hit hard and if someone isnt paying attention the entire raid may be wiped or perhaps only a few people will need rezzes, in which the durability on thier items will be damaged which at that level costs and arm and a leg to repair. The mobs can drop tier gear, so that is rewarding in its own, however, most of these mobs will respawn, so if the raid is wiped and has to start from the beggining most if not all of the normal trash mobs will reappear, which will discourage most raid groups and end them there. IN ALL OF THESE FIGHTS MOST CHARACTERS WILL HAVE ONE FUNCTION ONLY. 3 MAX!!! So be prepared to do the same damn thing over and over again. Healers, you may want to get up on the heal meter, but this is a stupid idea! doing so will only prove that you can spam overheal which in the end only causes more stress on the raid. People often fight with one another over meters. Its unpleasant. Its obnoxious. It's not needed. Id say this part takes up about 30-50% of the raid depending on how successful the raid is at killing mobs quickly.

Boss Events:
Each boss has one or more effective strategies to kill them. Generally if the party doesnt know it they will die. Although the battles are rather fun(some of them) its generally where your stuck doing one or two things alone while manuvering yourself. A lot of people can die here and dont expect to one shot anything unless the party is well experienced and geared. Mainly experienced. I cant complain too much about bosses because blizzard did manage to make a lot of them interesting but i will say that some of them are so absolutely fucking annoying that they almost ruin a raid dungeon. And doing the same bosses over and over again and not getting what they drop esp when its that one item youve been dying to get gets handed to some guy from another class that barely benefits from it. id say this part usually takes anywhere from 20-35% of a raid dungeon, maybe less if your good. I'm not taking into account rezzing and preperation, im talking about the actual fighting.

Rezzing and reconstruction occurs ALL THE TIME. If someone dies or logs or is dcd, they will have to be rezzed or replaced. Sometimes there are scenarios when only a few healers are left to raise the entire raid group. This may take lots of time. And replacing people is by far one of the most annoying things you can do in a raid. Simply because some raids get too overconfident and advace while seeking and short on members, or perhaps because someone leaves theres not enough people to dispell for a certain boss. The trick is with replacement is getting the right person to go all the way to the dungeon and summoning him once hes inside while maintaining members from going haywire. Cause boredom will do that. Either that or they fall asleep, so you have these people who may be listed in the chart but are so far from whats going on that they'd be better off dead. Instances are reset according to a schedule. So you have to find someone whos timer is reset otherwise they wont be able to join you. This idol or slow moving process takes awhile. say 5-15% of the raid. more if you have some unreliable players.

Treasure distribution:
Loot is given to people usually by a dkp system(dragon kill point) in which for each boss you kill you get points to your name. Every item given a point value. In most raids however class comes before dkp when it comes to most tier gear. However, weapons and the like are prettymuch whoever has the most dkp. Checking DKP and distributing items is a slow process because of the worth of the items. If the raid is unhappy with item distribution, most of those people wont come back to raid with that raid group. Most raid leaders ive been with believe in a very organized dkp loot system. Also, while getting the best gear in the game, you'll notice, everyone around you who is lvl 70(which is 90% of everyone) has the same or better gear. Hardly a soul will have anything different, because everyone is the same end game. Because its so easy to get to endgame and get everything. AND END GAME IS BORING AS FUCK!!!!

[Cowlander]

Everything you've mentioned can be applied to every MMO ever created.

[Sukasa]

Everything you've mentioned can be applied to every MMO ever created.

[snapback]13525[/snapback]

Seconded.

Oh, and I also see why you complained about some of my first few posts Cow. (Could you go back and space out the paragraphs a bit Benito?)

What you say is true, but, if you think about it, that's exactly how FF is, too :/

"Also, while getting the best gear in the game, you'll notice, everyone around you who is lvl 70(which is 90% of everyone) has the same or better gear. Hardly a soul will have anything different, because everyone is the same end game."

All samurai/warriors/dark knights have hauby's. All ninja's/thieves/monks have SH. This applies until they can get Assault/Salvage/God gear. So...yeah, it's the same thing. Most of the time, there is indeed a group of "the" items a job should have to make it work, but the only thing that makes it different from player to player is usually ignorance to said good gear.

It is a good summary of MMO's though.  

::Edit - Forgot to add that the only reason I want to play WoW is that a huge chunk of people in my school's robotics club (FIRST) plays it :x and it would be fun to just fiddle around together::

[omnibahumut]

re-formated op

[Brightblade]

Seconded.

Oh, and I also see why you complained about some of my first few posts Cow. (Could you go back and space out the paragraphs a bit Benito?)

What you say is true, but, if you think about it, that's exactly how FF is, too :/

"Also, while getting the best gear in the game, you'll notice, everyone around you who is lvl 70(which is 90% of everyone) has the same or better gear. Hardly a soul will have anything different, because everyone is the same end game."

All samurai/warriors/dark knights have hauby's. All ninja's/thieves/monks have SH. This applies until they can get Assault/Salvage/God gear. So...yeah, it's the same thing. Most of the time, there is indeed a group of "the" items a job should have to make it work, but the only thing that makes it different from player to player is usually ignorance to said good gear.

It is a good summary of MMO's though. 

::Edit - Forgot to add that the only reason I want to play WoW is that a huge chunk of people in my school's robotics club (FIRST) plays it :x and it would be fun to just fiddle around together::

[snapback]13535[/snapback]

w/e i tottaly wear AF or JSE for my war over haub  

[Cowlander]

Seconded.

Oh, and I also see why you complained about some of my first few posts Cow. (Could you go back and space out the paragraphs a bit Benito?)

What you say is true, but, if you think about it, that's exactly how FF is, too :/

"Also, while getting the best gear in the game, you'll notice, everyone around you who is lvl 70(which is 90% of everyone) has the same or better gear. Hardly a soul will have anything different, because everyone is the same end game."

All samurai/warriors/dark knights have hauby's. All ninja's/thieves/monks have SH. This applies until they can get Assault/Salvage/God gear. So...yeah, it's the same thing. Most of the time, there is indeed a group of "the" items a job should have to make it work, but the only thing that makes it different from player to player is usually ignorance to said good gear.

It is a good summary of MMO's though. 

::Edit - Forgot to add that the only reason I want to play WoW is that a huge chunk of people in my school's robotics club (FIRST) plays it :x and it would be fun to just fiddle around together::

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Yeah, exactly. I'm not bashing you, Benito, by any means. It's just how MMOs are crafted. You level grind till you hit the cap, then you try to get the best possible gear you can. Each MMO is just a slight variation on this. I think people here know how I stand on WoW and FFXI, it's all a matter of what you like as far as general atmosphere, game mechanics, and unique content. And you pretty much get from it what you put into it. In the case of FFXI, I started playing by myself because none of my friends did, and I made in-game friends. In the case of WoW, I played with real-life friends, and I think I enjoyed it more because  of that (not to mention that there's no ganking in FFXI). Before this thread turns into another FFXI vs. WoW thread, I'll just say that what makes a game better than another is often circumstantial.

[Kiona]

w/e i tottaly wear AF or JSE for my war over haub 

[snapback]13542[/snapback]

Screenshots or it didn't happen!

On Topic: WoW is soooo lame, and boring.  FFXI is made of gold and glitter.

Fighting through elite raid mobs:
This is a tiresome, rewarding, and painful process of eliminating the "trash" mobs to get to the next boss within a raid dungeon.

Yeah, my #1 most hated thing about WoW.  40+ people for raids vs 18 people for a HNM.  Dynamis doesn't count, since not a lot of "endgame" ffxiers still do it, or ever did.  In FFXI you can even beat a lot of "endgame" NMs with a group of 6!

I think in general WoW is more of a zergy, less individual game, and thus booring.

Every item given a point value. In most raids however class comes before dkp when it comes to most tier gear. However, weapons and the like are prettymuch whoever has the most dkp. Checking DKP and distributing items is a slow process because of the worth of the items. If the raid is unhappy with item distribution, most of those people wont come back to raid with that raid group. Most raid leaders ive been with believe in a very organized dkp loot system.

Yeah... BCNM, Popped NMs, farmed, quested, missions, Limbus, hello?  I can't stand the idea of WoW's loot system, it's so mundane -.-

I've only gotten to level 44ish in WoW, but it's basically the same thing: You either get good items from a solo quest reward, a difficult farmable mob (in instance or world drop), or a group quest reward.  Or the auction house.



I could be speaking out of my ass though, I don't know a lot about WoW endgame.  From what I've seen, WoW accomplishments do seem to me to be, in large, solely time-based.  Plug away long enough and you'll get it.  FFXI's were different, at least up until the mundane camping of non-poppable 24hr HNMs (never did it, never want to.  I consider myself having experienced endgame without it).

Edit: Edited for completeness' sake.  No Kio post would be complete without an edit.

[Cowlander]

Yeah, my #1 most hated thing about WoW.  40+ people for raids vs 18 people for a HNM.  Dynamis doesn't count, since not a lot of "endgame" ffxiers still do it, or ever did.  In FFXI you can even beat a lot of "endgame" NMs with a group of 6!

[snapback]13559[/snapback]

I was under the impressions that many HNMs required more than a standard alliance. People waiting to be swapped in/out for WS/Nukes/What have you.

I think in general WoW is more of a zergy, less individual game, and thus booring.
Yeah... BCNM, Popped NMs, farmed, quested, missions, Limbus, hello?  I can't stand the idea of WoW's loot system, it's so mundane -.-

[snapback]13559[/snapback]

It might seem like that, due to the higher amount of people allowed to raid, but I can tell you firsthand that during many encounters, even if one or two people fuck up, they fuck the whole encounter up. Raids take teamwork as well. Oh, you bet your ass you can zerg kill bosses, but isn't that pretty much what RMT players in FFXI do? That, or they kite something and just Bio II it over and over.

I've always thought of WoW as a "get to the good stuff quick" kind of experience. One where you don't need to spend so much time leveling in order to get to the "meat" of the game. I can see how that might not be as "rewarding" of an experience- leveling so fast- but if you're strapped for play time, you can get in and out without sacrificing much. It's true that both WoW and FFXI have things to do along the way to the level cap, but it's the endgame that you'll spend the most time doing.

I also appreciate the economy in WoW. There's just as many (if not more) RMT/Goldfarmers in WoW, and yet I never really felt the effect. I still think it's wrong, but you just don't get as frustrated with it because you can farm/craft yourself some money easily enough.

I've only gotten to level 44ish in WoW, but it's basically the same thing: You either get good items from a solo quest reward, a difficult farmable mob (in instance or world drop), or a group quest reward.  Or the auction house.
I could be speaking out of my ass though, I don't know a lot about WoW endgame.  From what I've seen, WoW accomplishments do seem to me to be, in large, solely time-based.  Plug away long enough and you'll get it.  FFXI's were different, at least up until the mundane camping of non-poppable 24hr HNMs (never did it, never want to.  I consider myself having experienced endgame without it).

[snapback]13559[/snapback]

The difference between level 44 and 60 is pretty big. You get all your talents, access to more powerful gear, epic mounts, and more interesting raids (besides MC). For me personally, I never really got into raiding that much. I was more about the PvP system (which I fucking loved, even as an under-equipped warrior). I would agree that WoW rewards are based on how much time you're willing to put into it, but I think FFXI could be the same way. You gotta put in appearances for HNMs so that you "earn" loot when it drops. You can't just randomly show up and expect to take something. It's the same with WoW (or for most of the guilds I knew of).

In my opinion, I think the Instance system is superior to FFXI's spawncamping style. Instead of relying on numbers (and knowledge) to ensure that you get a claim and kill, you rely on numbers (and knowledge) just to kill. You don't have to compete with other guilds for claims. Thought I do think FFXI has delved more into this type of play, with things like Assault, where you get a group and earn points for gear, and I think that's a good thing.

I'm not gonna say one is more superior to the other; that depends on your own likes and dislikes.

In b4 "WoW has shitty graphics", wall of text, tl;dr, etc.

[Alarie]

In b4 "WoW has shitty graphics", wall of text, tl;dr, etc.

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WoW has shi--sorry sorry! Wow, I always seem to do that.  
Just kidding!

[Kiona]

I was under the impressions that many HNMs required more than a standard alliance. People waiting to be swapped in/out for WS/Nukes/What have you.

I meant more of the specific challenges in FFXI like capped fights - meant to be fought at a certain strength.  Aside from pvp, those aren't in WoW to my knowledge.  In WoW if you can't beat something, gain a few levels then try again... and at endgame, if you can't beat something you can -always- throw more people at it.

But yeah, it's different things for different people.  I really liked the BCs in FFXI, for missions, CoP, ZM, ToAU, BCNM, KSNM, Assault, Limbus (to a lesser extent, Limbus is more like WoW instances, except that every mob drops what you want, not just the mega bosses) - best thing about ffxi IMO.

But yeah, I agree some HNMs you gotta swap out for, but usually not more than like 22-26 people.  Even that's often overkill.  We had like 33 people show for our first Kirin when I lead our HNMLS, most of the members were totally bored =/  Better with 22-26, max

It might seem like that, due to the higher amount of people allowed to raid, but I can tell you firsthand that during many encounters, even if one or two people fuck up, they fuck the whole encounter up. Raids take teamwork as well. Oh, you bet your ass you can zerg kill bosses, but isn't that pretty much what RMT players in FFXI do? That, or they kite something and just Bio II it over and over.

Yeah, you're right.  I was thinking more for capped/BCNMish fights.

I've always thought of WoW as a "get to the good stuff quick" kind of experience. One where you don't need to spend so much time leveling in order to get to the "meat" of the game. I can see how that might not be as "rewarding" of an experience- leveling so fast- but if you're strapped for play time, you can get in and out without sacrificing much. It's true that both WoW and FFXI have things to do along the way to the level cap, but it's the endgame that you'll spend the most time doing.

Yeah, I typed a huge thing but it comes down to - FFXI is the bigger time sink in getting to level cap, so the accomplishments MEAN more, but in WoW you get to endgame quick so you can have more fun? I guess, I never got there =P

I would agree that WoW rewards are based on how much time you're willing to put into it, but I think FFXI could be the same way. You gotta put in appearances for HNMs so that you "earn" loot when it drops. You can't just randomly show up and expect to take something. It's the same with WoW (or for most of the guilds I knew of).

Yeah, but there's comparable/amazing gear that requires 0 camping but often a challenging capped fight (assault, divine might, CoP in general).  Granted they require time, but it's not like farming or endless killing, just muscling through the tough battles.

In my opinion, I think the Instance system is superior to FFXI's spawncamping style. Instead of relying on numbers (and knowledge) to ensure that you get a claim and kill, you rely on numbers (and knowledge) just to kill. You don't have to compete with other guilds for claims. Thought I do think FFXI has delved more into this type of play, with things like Assault, where you get a group and earn points for gear, and I think that's a good thing.

[snapback]13560[/snapback]

Yeah, I agree, instances are better but I don't like the way WoW does it.  Again - preference =P  But I don't like the idea of hacking and slashing through an hour or two of garbage mobs to get where I want - I'd rather have an instanced BCNM where I got the trigger item doing some other task =D  Or mission!  Or even bought for a decent price.

Scarlet Monastery put me to sleep so many times.

But yeah, I think we're already arguing which is better.  I won't say either, that's just my preference.  But my original statement stands - I think a lot of points that Ben brought up don't encompass all MMOs - some are mostly WoW specific.

And you smell.

[Cowlander]

And you smell.

[snapback]13570[/snapback]

NO U

[Benito]

w/e i tottaly wear AF or JSE for my war over haub 

[snapback]13542[/snapback]

THank you! I find FFXI has more originality and more people apt to really get into the storyline and even roleplay. While in WoW there is no story progression at all....NOT AT ALL!!!! This is the point i kind of missed when writing that little tidbit up there. Actually there was a lot i missed. It was late and I should have been in bed about an hour before i started writing that. Well ill space it. night everyone, take it easy

[Kiona]

NO U

[snapback]13578[/snapback]

<3

[Benito]

<3

[snapback]13583[/snapback]

<3 right back atcha

[Kiona]

lies

[Benito]

okay im bored....ganna head to bed. Night

[Cowlander]

THank you! I find FFXI has more originality and more people apt to really get into the storyline and even roleplay. While in WoW there is no story progression at all....NOT AT ALL!!!! This is the point i kind of missed when writing that little tidbit up there. Actually there was a lot i missed. It was late and I should have been in bed about an hour before i started writing that. Well ill space it. night everyone, take it easy

[snapback]13580[/snapback]

Hmmm I dunno about the RP thing. Maybe it was just Seraph but it didn't seem like there were many RP LS around. FFXI can be a powergamer's game too, with all the job/subjob combos and whatnot.

WoW does have a story, mostly expanding on events from WC3. But yeah, you're right, it doesn't come up much in gameplay. But for me, that's not such a bad thing. I never really played FFXI or WoW for storylines. I usually skipped most cutscenes in missions, and if I didn't, I just plain forgot what happened.

[Sukasa]

I never really played FFXI or WoW for storylines. I usually skipped most cutscenes in missions, and if I didn't, I just plain forgot what happened.

[snapback]13588[/snapback]

=/

I don't think I've ever played a game, EVER, that has matched the kind and intensity of emotions the Chains of Promathia storyline has put me through (In a hurry, I'll update later D:). ZM is too short, and ToAU is a joke in terms of execution from what I've heard (There's only, what, two or three fights so far? I don't even think they're BC's :/ Even if so, I haven't heard about them, meaning they aren't as notorious as "6-4"). Also, mission ranks don't really feel to "epic."

Not trying to bash, but unless one has completed CoP, one has not really experienced what FFXI has to offer in terms of storyline and game play execution through it.

How far did you end up getting, Cow? :X

[Cowlander]

How far did you end up getting, Cow? :X

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CoP.... ummmm.... the one before Diabololos.

[Deacon]

The Instance system is WoW is actually really awesome, and SE sees how well it works, their adding a lot of stuff like that, so there's less in the way of HNMs that you have to camp (Notice, sea gods are popped... assault, salvage, limbus). The little bit of world-boss ness is still there, and they're still adding, but I think all the new stuff is wicked awesome, and SE is doing a fantastic job seeing the desires of the players and working with it.

As for the lotting system in WoW.  Lots of FFXI linkshells work similarily... it has its ups and downs.  It keeps people from popping by and getting stuff, but it REALLY depends on the situation,  if my Dynamis LS used a points system for lotting, I'd be at 4/5 on PLD AF right now, no question, but it would SUCK, since any time someone new joins the LS, they'd need to wait at least a month, probably more, before they have enough points to compete with anyone....  Which makes getting new people rough, and then the LS shrinks and dies.

Keep in mind, I found WoW entertaining to play, but the lack of any immersive storyline was gay, and the PVP, though better than FFXI, seemed really contrived at least in FFXI they don't pretend its serious war when all you seem to be doing is playing games... the battlegrounds seemed like "Horde-Alliance co-ed violent sports tourneys".  

Also, I found that gear selection in WoW is overly simple... it comes down to "Which number is bigger" because of how straightforeward, open and simple they make it, and that can lead to a lot of elitism and e-peen issues.  In FFXI its more subtle, and more strategic.

[Cowlander]

at least in FFXI they don't pretend its serious war when all you seem to be doing is playing games... the battlegrounds seemed like "Horde-Alliance co-ed violent sports tourneys".

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Fucking signed. World PvP was the greatest thing that game had going for it, and they completely nerfed it so that it was almost impossible to do (at least for major town raids) because of insta-spawning elite guards that just keep coming. For stuff like Astranaar or Southshore it was perfectly doable with like 15 people, but for places like Stormwind you're fucked without at least a full, balanced raid group. Battlegrounds are ok, but only for so long. The honor grind (pre 2.0 or whatever) was unbearable, but I like how they changed it so even casual players can get the epic PvP set. Like I told Tenka and Assy and whoever, FFXI needs to reward the people who PvP alot by offering class-specific PvP sets that give bonuses inside Ballista and Brenner, etc. Weapons, too.

Also, I found that gear selection in WoW is overly simple... it comes down to "Which number is bigger" because of how straightforeward, open and simple they make it, and that can lead to a lot of elitism and e-peen issues.  In FFXI its more subtle, and more strategic.

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Yeah, definitely agree for the most part. For pretty much every class and talent set, there was one "perfect" setup that you could aim for. I can remember seeing people in all the huge guilds, and the people of each class looked almost perfectly alike. It caters to people that like cookie-cutter type builds, but it rewards creative styles too.

[Krashna]

Yeah, definitely agree for the most part. For pretty much every class and talent set, there was one "perfect" setup that you could aim for. I can remember seeing people in all the huge guilds, and the people of each class looked almost perfectly alike. It caters to people that like cookie-cutter type builds, but it rewards creative styles too.

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That's the reason they invented the entire talent tree system in the first place. So people can pick the equipment that best caters to the type of character build that they want. So that everyone isn't the same character with a different name.